Jim Camp – How to Negotiate Like a Pro

Mixergy has been the topic of many great stories from entrepreneurs, angel investors, and business leaders. a Few people email others. to For more details on negotiation techniques, ask. So I invited Jim Camp…

Jim Camp – How to Negotiate Like a Pro

Mixergy has been the topic of many great stories from entrepreneurs, angel investors, and business leaders. a Few people email others. to For more details on negotiation techniques, ask. So, I invited Jim Camp, whose “Start with No” More than 500 multinationals trust these negotiating methods and they are taught to More than 100,000 students to We need your help.

Andrew: This interview has been sponsored by WuFoo. They offer embeddable forms and surveys for your site at no charge. You can also get beautiful reports like this one so that you can analyse the results. It’s also sponsored by Shopify. If you go to Shopify.com, you’ll be able to Create and manage your own online shop. You can even create and manage your own apps store.-ins. This interview is sponsored and extended by Grasshopper. Let me tell them. to you.

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Andrew: Okay. Here’s the program.

Hey, everyone. I’m Andrew Warner, founder of Mixergy.com, Home of the Ambitious Upstart. We are now going. to Find out how to negotiate. How to negotiate properly. Also, to Find out how to That’s what I asked. Jim Camp. He is a Leading global expert in negotiations. And he’s trained and coached over 100,000 people. He’s worked with more than 500 multi-National organizations include Intel, IBM and Cisco Systems. His site is full of companies that he’s worked with. I’m going to limit it to These are just three suggestions to help you. to Visit his website to The rest is up to you. He’s also been featured on CNN, CNBC, the Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, and many, many, many other shows and publications, including today, Mixergy.com. JimI am referring to to The website. What is the website?

Interviewee: Startwithno.com

Andrew: Startwithno.com. As the first question, let me ask you. This is the first question. a It is a selfish question but it is necessary to Be asked. If we learn what you’re about to teach us here today, and what you teach in your courses, and what’s available on your website, what’s in it for us?

Interviewee: Our last client that we followed, in which we actually tracked every negotiation we coached, was $400 to $1 for coaching fees

AndrewThey were able to to They were able to negotiate so strongly that they received $400 more per dollar than what they had invested in the program.

Interviewee: That’s right. They had a gain. They had negotiated a deal for 76 million dollars. a Gain from a little over 11 million dollars.

Andrew: Okay. What do you mean? That is something I truly respect. A lot of times when people teach, they don’t have a way, they don’t have a Feedback loop a way of measuring how successful what they’re teaching is out in the field. And I like that you’re measuring it in dollars and cents. So let me get an overview of what we’re going to Learn more here. You might also ask, “Start with no”? You say, ‘start with no”. You might ask, “Why not start with?” “no”?

Interviewee:… So let’s get started. The word is one of the most difficult problems in the world. “no” This is what it really means.

AndrewHmm-hmm.

Interviewee: I didn’t find an audience, when I talked with an audience, say, and you’ll be shocked at the different thoughts people have about the word “no”. No one brings up that it’s just a decision to You can be changed. They speak about rejection. They speak about their fear of hearing it. They discuss all the negative connotations. “no”. “No” It is the most negative word. However, in reality, “no” It is all about a decision to Changes can be made. And it’s the safest decision to be made. It keeps the status quo. So, there’s a Many dynamics are around the word ‘no’, so that’s why we’ve encircled ‘no’. My most popular book. ‘Start With No’That is what he does.

AndrewBut Jim, [??] we’ve got a It was a little bit echolious, but it went away. Jim, aren’t we supposed toIf someone says ‘no’, aren’t we supposed to Let them go. Aren’t people who don’t stop at ‘no’Who sees? ‘no’ As a Decision that meets your needs to be changed, aren’t they considered obnoxious in the world? We don’t want to We don’t want to be considered obnoxious. to To be liked as smart, successful, and likeable businesspeople

Interviewee: Yes, we want to Be likeable. We want to Be smart. We definitely want to be intelligent. to You will be successful. You can be successful if you think for a moment, all the audience I reach out to to Today we can all say ‘no’ to Anything I say today. The important part might be just, just reject what I’m saying, and be comfortable with that. It won’t hurt me in any way. It won’t just happen.

Andrew: Did I just, you were…

IntervieweeSay ‘no’…

Andrew: I see… Sorry, there’s a Little big of a lag, I’ll let you speak, and I’m sorry, I shouldn’t keep interrupting because of this lag.

Interviewee: I want you to keep… OK, you see, so how did I appear, how do you appear to the audience when you’re comfortable hearing them? You are confident and effective.

Time Start:

IntervieweeAll of these things are possible to Allowing someone to to say no comfortably. It’s a Very powerful dynamic in negotiations Very powerful

Andrew: To permit someone to say no is a What is the power of this dynamic? How do you mean?

Interviewee: Well when’s the last time someone said to you: Look I’ve got a great idea for you and I’d like to It is possible to show it to you, and when I’m finished it’s ok to reject it you won’t hurt my feelings. Would that be fair?

Andrew: Yeah?

Interviewee: Let the party have its barriers down a Spend less, but you get a lot. a Spend a little more time examining the proposition.

Andrew: I see what you’re saying, yeah.

Interviewee: So that’s just negotiating an agenda is all we are doing. Of what’s going to happen.

AndrewI see. Ok, so before we get started, before we start negotiating we say look it’s ok for you to You can say no. And by doing they we let the other person reduce his barriers and listen and take in what we’re saying without feeling like they have to Find out a Just in case.

Interviewee: That’s exactly what we’re doing. We’re allowing that person to be comfortable saying no and being engaged because we’re not pushing them to change, we’re asking them to Maintain the status quo and take only what is necessary a look so it’s a Different dynamic.

Andrew: Ok. Alright. One of the other things I’ve read about you is that you reject the idea of win-Negotiating is about winning. Why?

Interviewee: Well let’s talk first of all you never win a negotiation. Never lose! a negotiation. All you have to do is keep your goal and mission in mind. So there’s no such thing as winning and losing. Another thing that drives me is to attack win-win is that it’s steeped in compromise. Collective bargaining requires compromise. Negotiation does not. Yet you take a Take a look at the win-All the books and philosophies that win, as well as the many books that are available to us to benefit from those mind-blowing ideas-Sets because they believe that they have to Give up something in order to succeed to Be liked or in order to You can find it here a win. They falsely use compromise to They can manipulate the negotiation so they give up more than they should. It’s a matter of compromise or making assumptions. What can we do? We prepare a BATNA Now a BATNA is absurd. That’s the Best Alternative Negotiated Agreement, whatever, they come up with a BATNA. BATNA. a They negotiate so that they can compromise before they even begin. They get in. a Negotiating and someone says “Look, let’s cut”. to the chase, what’s your Bottom line. Well we’ve already prepared a bottom-line. We already have. a BATNA. And what’s the savvy negotiatior say? Once they’ve given up that bottom line? Gee, that’s not quite good enough. Now the negotiations get serious. Because the bottom line number is already there and now they’re asking for more. Then fear and assumptions take over. Oh my goodness I’m going to You can’t lose this deal. Oh My Gosh. And they start guessing again and assuming oh well I’ll give up 3 more percent and I’ll get this deal. It’s something you see every day. Coaching is where I see it everyday.

Andrew: Actually would you mind then giving us an example from one of the people you’ve coached? I’d like to This is how it looks in action. How Everybody starts to compromise before the negotiating starts, how they make assumptions and how they back off before they’ve even begun.

Interviewee: Sure, I’ll give you a This is a great story. This is a True story: A chairman called me to California, to Silicon Valley, for a meeting. It was with Pacific Rim Senior Vice-President and his team. They were trying to to move the technology into Korea and the Senior Vice President and his entire team–now you’re going to love this–believed that, they truly believed, that to Korea, the initial round of technology to Be given to You would recognize the name of this Korean corporation. It had eighty million USD in hardware. to Be given to Korea to get into the marketplace and the senior vice president actually said: I truly believe they’ll like us if we do that. And there’s an example, that’s an extreme BATNA. I mean we hadn’t even engaged that company yet and here was the senior vice president arguing, convincingly…

Time to End: 10:00

Begun 00:10:00 (minute 10)

Here is the argumentation of the senior Vice President to The board of directors to The Chairman to The leadership that the fallback place was to Spend 80 million dollars on equipment for them to penetrate the market place and when the Chairman asked ëHow do you know this?’. We have been to Korea and have been in this region. a We have known this for a long time, and from our past experiences it is the best. to Do business, they’ll like you. That is an extreme but it’s bizarre what people will give away, not even have a meaning.

Andrew: Okay now you have theseÖ let me adjust the microphone here We keep getting here we go. These assumptions can be dangerous. We need to get real information before we enter into negotiations. So we can negotiate intelligently without making things up.

Interviewee: a We have a few things. to One of ours? to do research, which very often we don’t do. Then, this is going to We have very little! to Do your research, but only then can you make an informed decision. to You can also refuse to participate in the research. You are now going to Say “Wait!” a minute, How do you reject research? This is how we proceed: We take the research we have done and we reject it. Finally, we do our research at the point of the sphere negotiation. We can conduct our own research in the negotiation by asking the right questions and outlining the questions. to Discover the truth about what you believe and what you don’t believe. See? a Let’s take websites for instance, which are often referred to as websites. a sales tour and I don’t mind in my website we try to Coaching vision to Have people become interested in the work we do. So I encourage, and I encourage, people to get involved in what I am doing. to First, read my book. Next, I encourage people. to You can call me at the same time as we do today. I encourage people to Examine what you are doing right now to eliminate any assumptions and see that they are what they really are.

Professional negotiators are best when they have to You don’t know. You have. to ask because if we don’t know. If someone asks a We need to ask questions to Learn to train yourself. I don’t know if I don’t know, I don’t know, so I have got to ask. This is how we get rid of assumptions. a Quick overview

Andrew: I am going to This is how you can help a a little deeper, but let’s make sure that I understand and know how I get there. a good understanding is to Use an example. Let’s say that I see you teaching classes, and that I think the audience could learn more about negotiation skills than what we do here. I would love to to get paid for offering gym’s negotiating classes. Why don’t I call them up and work out an agreement where for every class that I sell to My audience is what I get a Cut off what they have on the page. You’re saying the first thing that I need to I will do my research and call other people who are listed on your site. You might be a Take a Look around your website to find out what kind of information you have. a Affiliate fees and so on You may also be eligible for do a Very little research to Drop them on and see who is angry with you a past or for underpaying them or excited about you for over paying them and then you’re saying reject that research.

This means that we will negotiate to sell or resell your classes on bigcitydot com. How How do you structure your deals? What do you do with referrals? What do you think? a Website How would you get us up-and-running? That is what we are referring to here.

Interviewee: Let’s start with why you would like it. a Affiliate with me

Andrew: I’d ask you that. Or you’re asking me?

Interviewee: What would you like? to Try to Gather your vision and start to try. to Gather mine.

Andrew: Before we try to Understand the strategies you are using Jim’s vision and Jim’s is going to You want to understand Andrew Warner’s vision. And that’s why is the decision’s are made in your vision on the emotional side of the brain. If you would like me to get a better idea of your vision, and what it might be that you are looking for, to You can become an affiliate of me. You can then begin. to get a Take a look at the picture, make some decisions and then ask Andrew why I think I should be an affiliate with you. Now I’m ready to start. to Do my research about your world, your achievements and everything that I just mentioned.

Andrew: How about this, if you were? to Ask what your vision is and why would it be important for you to have it. a Get to know me and partner with me

Stop at 00:15:00 (minute fifteen)

Andrew: …partner up with me. I might, if I hadn’t already been open in past Mixergy interviews. You might, I suppose. “Well, all I want to do is help people. I don’t care about money. I just want to help.” Or I might, actually maybe I’d do that. Maybe I’d say all I want to All I do is help people. And I’ve misled you because I’ve told you about the view of myself, and of my work, that I want the world to know. And then when you’re negotiating with me, you’re only dealing with this view of me, with this facade that I’m putting up. How Do you want to move on? How What do you want? to What is the ultimate goal?

Interviewee: a Rule called Three Plus.

AndrewHmm-hmm.

Interviewee: And I might even say, we also have a Strip Line behavior You might even say: to you, Andrew, I might say, “Andrew, I’m really troubled here. I know a lot of really great people like yourself want to help the world, but why would you want to affiliate with me?” Now that’s the second time I ask that question.

Andrew: OK. What is the significance of the second time? You’re saying…

IntervieweeWe are proud to say: to Take out the emotional onion and make it your own. a More complete vision Have you ever been asked by someone? a question, just off the cuff, very quickly, and you weren’t able to connect? You weren’t able to get a image of how to answer. And that’s how the brain works. So, we have to Do not ask the same question more than three time. The more important the rule is, and the more important the question, we will be able to answer it. That’s what we call Three Plus. We discuss this in the book. This is what my books and our training all practice. Then I would like to say: “But seriously, Andrew.” Maybe I’ll even be a little more open to you a Little bit. You might be able to ask me another question. “Here’s the problem, Andrew. I don’t know really, truly why you would want to affiliate with me. How important is it that your client, your affiliates, all the people you get to touch, how important is it that they find something that really changes their life to the better? How important is that?”

Andrew: “Very important. That’s the reason why I’m here.”

Interviewee: OK, so you’re really serious.

AndrewHmm-hmm. Yes.

Interviewee: Are your serious about this?

Andrew: Very serious.

Interviewee: That’s a Three possible answers to the pertinent question are provided. Yes, no, and possibly. If I hear maybe, I’ll continue. If you say “Yes”, I’ll say, “Are you sure?” You can say: “No”, “Geez, Andrew, I’m falling short here. Where am I falling short?” So our system enables you to You can go in any direction that you like to Continue to go knowing that we are here for you. to Create vision in the other side. Because that’s where their decisions will be made. Their decisions to Don’t give up valuable information. So I had. a client one time, and here’s an example. I had a One time client, great CFO a Company at the moment. He’s in Korea. And we couldn’t figure out why this adversary so much wanted this contract. It was extremely uncomfortable. Bob, his name, was Bob when I said: “Bob, we may have to Twenty Plus this question. Why this contract? Why do you want, why would you want this contract?” We asked the Korean CEO. Bob replied that he had asked the question nine times. The Korean CEO replied with the ninth question. “The contract, I’m just going to break it anyway. So you’ll have to sue me.” He did give up that idea. to Bob. So of course, we wouldn’t, they wouldn’t, sign the contract, because his intention was to Break it anyway

Andrew: I see. I see. You know, I’ve had reporters do that to me. They’ll ask me a question. I won’t answer. They’ll ask me a question. I won’t answer. They’ll ask me the same question again, and maybe I’ll come up with a Comfortable language is used to form the answer to me, but doesn’t reveal what I don’t want to reveal. Yet, after the fifth attempt they ask, it seems that something has gone wrong. It’s amazing that it does. And you know, the other thing that I noticed, earlier you said, sometimes when people answer the first time, they’re not giving the right answer. They’re just giving an answer. I’ve noticed that in interviews. I’ll interview somebody, after having done a Pre-interview with them, I know I’m thinking of one person specifically, we talked in the pre-interview. We were both in agreement to Certain facts were never truthful. He’s here. I’ve got them, facts on his website. He arrives. I ask him. a Question, and he gets it wrong about his own company!

Interviewee: [Laughs]

Andrew: to Come and re-It’s as simple as that. It’s because it’s not a Natural situation to be sitting here facing the light, facing the camera…

Andrew:because It’s not a Natural situation to Be facing the light, facing towards the camera, with the live audience. to Interact, knowing that others going to Watch the video and imagine what happens next. a negotiating situation isn’t a Most people find this a normal situation

Interviewee:no your exactly right, here’s the trick, and i call it the secret sauce, there are rules and fundamentals to negotiation that cannot be broken, and so often they are broken or people don’t know what they don’t know and those rules for example we were talking about 3 plus and that’s a You have a very powerful psychological rule. to Give your brain a Chance to Get behind the scenes and create division I a journal in workshops and i don’t do many workshops anymore when we did do workshops and i would do an example where i would have everyone close their eyes and bow their heads down and i would ask three questions and as soon as you had a vision: Put your hand up, and invariably I would take people within 3 Questions to The golden gate bridge. I would like to know what guards the gate. That would be my first question. What is the international orange on the west coach? That would be my second question. The third question would be windy all of the time. Invariably, someone would have. a The golden gate picture is very quick. Some people would get it right away with the first question. But the point here is that you have. to Give the brain some time to process the question and if the reporter and I’ve done a A lot of interviews, just like yours the reporter is going to Push extremely hard for one question. to You can find it here a Reverse is another principle we have and it might not work. to It’s there, but I used it. a Reverse with you, when I first asked you about why would it be so. to Join me as an affiliate and I will tell you what i said to You can do that. a I had the same question as you. to be an affiliate with me and that’s a In reverse, you will have the same tool in your toolbox but it is not there. a rule it’s a Principle it is not a tactic it’s nt a trick it’s designed to Vision is the key to success to Use it correctly to ensure that you get the best results to Be able to Moving the negotiation forward

Andrew: Ok, so you discussed getting the vision of each side. Now what about our side. So, should we enter into negotiations with? a Vision of what we want to Go out, or should we just be open? to Having a Try to communicate with us to It’s possible to figure it out.

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